LRM- Peaking and Tapering

[PT]

Hey P (Yellar Jersey) T: It has suddenly dawned on me why you have held the yellar so long - you have obviously been getting "coaching" tips from RLAG.

No coaching tips from RLAG, or I'd be faster than what I am...

Win a race and then never accept another challenge

I must interject at this point... I didn't say anything last year, but since it appears that I'm getting "called out" on the message board, it must be noted that after winning said Yellar Jersey... not only did I never get a look at it, I also was not made aware of the ensuing Yellar Jersey Challenge that Pink mentions below... just say'n

& claim to be the CHAMP (or is it CHUMP?)

See you at LRM

Looking forward to it brother...

Hey Dhac....PT might be actually holding the Yellar Jersey

pt has never, at any point in time, actually had possession of the famed Yellar Jersey In fact, to pt's limited knowledge his name and time was never added to the sleeve

BUT I actually am the last winner even though I've never seen it. Just sayin. LOL

Oh... and I'd say, based off my pic, that it's neither "CHAMP" or "CHUMP" but instead, "CHIMP"... get it...

One last thing, oh great master of the message board, I have to request that (Yellar Jersey) be removed... it can go back to runners or as befitting, "CHIMP"... I'll leave it to your discretion...

[Keith Willsey]

Tom wrote: Yep....well thats why we ran 2.20's and 2.30's....not like today....they only run 50-60 miles a week at most.....that won't get you under 3 hours...

Food for thought.

There are 100's of elite runners who could run under 3 hour on 60 miles a week or less, heck they could run under 2:30 with less than 60 miles per week.

You might say, well I am not talking about the elites. Then read the following.

You take the training and I will take the genetics.

Documented 37 old marathoner who has run 9 sub-3 hr marathons (ten in all - debuting in 3.10). I’ve listed the numbers below. The mpw´s include the taper, but I know that I’m somewhat atypical, as I´m not exactly a high mileage runner. My fall cycles are usually a lot shorter than the spring ones, but the accumulated miles probably explain why my fall results often compare favourably with the spring ones.


2.59.30 (fall 2006 age 33, 27 mpw - peak 35)

2.55.06 (spring 07, age 34, 26 mpw – peak 40)

2.52.34 (fall 07, age 34, 36 mpw – peak 57)

2.46.15 (spring 08, age 35, 37 mpw – peak 59)

2.45.15 (fall 08, age 35, mpw 40 – peak 56)

2.43.03 (spring 09, age 36, mpw 45, peak 68)

2.48.29 (fall 09, age 36, mpw 40, peak 59)

2.43.27 (spring 10, age 37, mpw 44, peak 62)

2.41.09 (fall 10, age 37, mpw 30, peak 38) PR

Jonathan included 3 charts from 3 different authors - Jeff Galloway's recommendations from a 1991 article, Mark Conover's recommendations from a 1996 article, and Mark Winitz's recommendations from a 2003 article - prescribing how much weekly training mileage one must run to finish a marathon in a particular time. The general recommendation of all three gentlemen follow the format of the faster your goal marathon time the more training miles per week are required to reach that goal. Table 1 provides a summary from each author for the 4 hour, 3 hour, and sub 2:30 hour marathoner.

Table 1: Recommended MPW for different marathon finishing time goals

Author, Year recommendation sub 3 Hours
Jeff Galloway, 1991 45-55 mpw
Mark Conover, 1996 35-50 mpw
Mark Winitz, 2003 60-75 mpw

"I followed the 40-60 mile per week training schedule in Road Racing for Serious Runners. The schedule proved to be very helpful - I felt stronger during the long runs and I thought that the tempo runs provided a barometer of my level of fitness. Thanks to your book I ran 2:54 and qualified for both the Boston and New York City Marathons." - Andrew Gordon

I chose the 18-week program with the 55-mile/week maximum and followed it to a 2:41:58 finish at Big Sur this year. For me your book was just right. Thanks." - Mark Voit

Here’s your short answer: As a broad guideline, a beginner should get up to at least 35 miles per week; more experienced runners can run very good marathons (sub-three hours) on 40-55 miles per week.

[dhmac]

Okay, I am doing around 40 per week and can come nowhere close to sub 3 hr marathon. Should I quit listenting to Billy & Sidewinder ??

[kimhoward]

Dhmac, u are lke me, I could run 100 MPW and never run under 3 hours,, genetics and talent have a lot to do with it. Just like I could lift weights for 6 hours a day and never have 20 inch biceps or bench press 350 But like Keith said, I know a few people who did under 60 MPW and ran under 3 hours,,,,,,,,but none that ran 60 and did a 2:20 All I know is it makes my day when I run a race and I beat someone who got a scholarship to college for running track I know they have more talent, but I have worked harder

[sidewinder]

Keith Keith....U sound like a before after weight loss commercial.....sure theres a few out there that will do that...but its a few.....its like the young kids we see in HS that have run great road races and in time we never hear much about them after HS....
A real example would be getting 50 males/females in arkansas ages 20-40 to do 50 miles a week over 2 years and see what the results would be at the end.....Then get 50 more of each and run them 75 and above and see the difference... people today only train just to survive a marathon, not to break records and get the best out of themselves, but want all the attention from it....people running 75 plus want more than attention....

[sidewinder]

Kim.......when you beat me (because I had a scholarship in college) it makes your day?? lol

[kimhoward]

Kim.......when you beat me (because I had a scholarship in college) it makes your day?? lol

lol,, well,, it would if you were 10 years younger

[Clydesdale]

I don't know if it makes his, but it makes mine! You guys are lucky, you only have to read Sidewinders theorys on here, I've had to listen to them for almost 24 years now! As for my token Marathon experience, I was doin 45-50 mpw and ran the first 18mi at a 2.57 pace, then the last 8mi at a pace that slowed to a 3.17.02 finsh. I don't see anything that great about breaking 3 hrs off 45-55 mpw if your doing your long runs and intervals. The thing that kills me about now days is that most people think guys in the 16's are fast. Geez.... I would run around 16 flat in most races and NOT EVEN PLACE! I can also remember will Willsey and I would go to Spa 10k every year and I would be around 33 min. and not even place, or even get in the top 20 or 30! If I had a dollar for every race Willsey ran under 16min in his career, I could have paid the gas bill for my last weekends tour of Arkansas! Anyway, does Sidewinder remind anyone else of the old sayin.... A Big Fish in a Little Pond???

[sidewinder]

ANYWAYS...Billy......I've run in all 4 corners of this country and I mean the corners...and have done well....so I like this LITTLE POND....when you were winning in the Danville 10k back in 1983 I was running in Florida or Georgia and winning.....lol

[Bill Torrey]

I enjoyed reading this post. Good luck to everyone and I will be cheering you on. In David's case I might throw a few jabs. It appears we might a couple of guys that could run sub 1:05 for the half.

I think a lot of today's runners just train enough to get done and are not interested in running more mileage or working harder at get the most out of their talent. That said the number of people running these events has increase so I guess we should be pleased that people do some work at getting into shape.

I know many of you have done this race before but remember once on the river if the wind is in your face going west doesn't mean that you will have a tail wind. On this river the wind is always in your face.

It has been 7 months since my last run. At this stage I would take a 4 hour marathon to run again. I guess all I can do is be a Race Director. Again hope all goes well for everyone.

[sidewinder]

I agree with Bill....he says some of the same things I do about training...just doing enough...Good luck on the LRM events ...we must hobble a marathon together sometime....cool..

[Keith Willsey]

they only run 50-60 miles a week at most.....that won't get you under 3 hours...


Sorry Tom, this part of your statement is still not true. If given a choice take genetics over training.

[kimhoward]

they only run 50-60 miles a week at most.....that won't get you under 3 hours...


Sorry Tom, this part of your statement is still not true. If given a choice take genetics over training.

I agree, Genetics play an important part,,I'm sure I could run faster if I put in 60 MPW instead of 30-45...but,,I might be hurt more,,,and even with 75 MPW,,,I wouldn't go sub 3

[sidewinder]

Oh MY!!!! yep genetics plays a minimal part....its maybe bigger on the world scene, but not on the local/regional level...U think the winners of the Arkansas Grand Prix are somehow better genetical?? Kim you put a saying at the bottom of your replies.....I guess you don't believe in it.....lol

I'll dig up some info on 3hr marathons in a week or so.....and get back here with some results.....Also you notice we got Willsey roused up here to get him replying on the message board....how cool is that.....lol

[Joe P Sandbagger]

I was going to avoid joining in, but I see both thoughts on this training debate. I've coached sub 17 high school 5km runners who ran peak training weeks of 25 miles. To that extent, genetics plays a role in this process. However genetics plays lesser and lesser of a role as the distance increases.

Those sub 17 5km runners would have no chance to break 3 hours with 25 miles a week. The great thing about the marathon is that the race is great equalizer between the genetic haves and have nots. If anyone is willing to commit to putting in the miles and phycially capable to put in the miles to run the distance successfully, they will catch up to the genetic haves.

One other fact that genetics plays is that those with superior genetics are more efficient with their running style. This allows those runners to train at higher level or more intesne level without facing injury. So gentics is a big role.

But on the other side, I agree with Sidewinder in the fact that people don't train like they use to years ago. The average road racer in Arkansas dosen't put the miles in that the runners were putting in during the early 80's. As a result there are not near as many sub 33 minute 10KM and 17 5KM runners.